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Anyone else here ever involved in

Consumer Express, AMRON, NUVA, CMODDS, the original 7×7 matrix version of FutureWorld, the original version of Excel Telecommunications, or old time mailorder stuff like co-publishing adsheets or mailing flyers? I used to love those little self-published adsheets, it was a real treat to me to get a ‘big mail’ full of them 🙂

Of course after a while they ruined your eyes on the tiny print in the 1″ ads, and you realized everyone was selling the same thing: flyer printing, flyer mailing, ad typesetting, flyer ad space, rubber stamps, mailing lists of other suckers like yourself, and ‘secret’ reports and formulas and recipes 🙂

Just the same, I’d love to go back and get another ‘big mail’, or a copy of MLM News, or Tom T. O’Shea’s Mailorder Network Advertiser to remember the excitement, the hopes, the dreams.

I admit it, i’ve looked for new mlm’s lately, do so every year or two, and as far as i can tell they are still infested with uncontrollable liars that couldn’t give a straight answer with a gun to their heads, especially the ‘tropical juice’ distributors. The worst one is that ‘direct beef jerky’ mlm guy, he was advertising “no MSG” even though his ingredients plainly listed “Monosodium Glutamate”!!! I like to think I’m the reason he took his message board down after I repeatedly pinned him down on the issue.

I wonder whatever happened to Prestige III.

The maker of ‘Allfood Tabs’ as sold by Sphere and Ideal was selling direct to customer from their website until just a couple years ago, and have now vanished from the web.

If anyone has memories, gossip, or small-talk of mlm in the mid 80’s, feel free to email me 🙂

That would only come up on this list

if somebody in one of those wrote about them here. Well, that is the source of how the new hyped stuff is marketed. If anybody asks about them, they will be discussed. However, I doubt that anybody is going to go out of their way to research the current MLMs, just to write a critique. (Besides which, that information is posted on other mailing lists, and blogs.)

Have you posted on the list up to now?

I am amused sometimes in the various forums and lists I am on when someone complains that “no-one is talking” or ” how come no-one ever talks about…?”

If you have MLM subjects you would like to see discussed my suggestion is – to discuss them! Post your point of view, let us hear about your experiences because this is a discussion list – it is not a place that dissects MLMs as they come up, it deals with people who have survived them.

The list is what the people on it who post make it to be.

Being that this is a survivor forum\blog

and not a database for mlm forum, it is reasonable to expect that we don’t post alot of facts as per se, about different mlm’s. We discuss how people have been hurt by mlm abuses. As AmQuix is the largest and most prevalent, it stands to reason that this would be the most common one we would hear about and discuss.

If you are looking for information about mlm, go to mlm watch, or or just google the particular mlm/scam you are looking for.

As for the whole “Has anyone heard of” or “what do you think of” line of questioning, we don’t do research for people and a lot of the time those questions are asked by trollers. Please don’t ask here. Thanks

I not so sure my post will be tolerated…

After coming here for over a year or so, I’m convinced that this site is 90% about AMWAY and Quixar. Having repented of my former life in MLM, I was hoping to get new information about new scams. Right now the only thing I know to do is read the headlines of the latest Money Makers Monthly to see what the latest hyped companies are. I would think as long as this website has been going that there would be more content on anything but Amway/Quixar since it is the oldest scam going in America.

I was thinking the other day how the “GAS PILLS” scams peaked about a year or two too early. (Prior to $4.00 a gallon gas) How many long distance mlms must have gone under because of cell phones and unlimted local landline calling. The old water filters with a 5k min purchase (front end loading) for garage qualifying.

I guess the bottom line is there are tons of MLMs since the Grand- Daddy of the all, Scamway has been in business. How about a little more discussion about more modern mlms or some different ones. I’ve seen some others mentioned but not for long and the Scamway
discussions start back.

I would have

Actually, I would have said, “I couldn’t help overhearing…” then acted interested in what he had to say and asked a lot of probing questions and basically made the point that he was scared to answer.

I’d have done it very sweetly and politely, like a chocolate and sugar covered cobra.

I went to lunch in an area where

there are some patio tables and an indoor water fountain, where I could read my book. A guy and a gal made their way to the table next to me. I could just tell they weren’t a couple – looked more like father and daughter. The minute they sat down, he started talking and I just had the feeling he was trying to talk her into some kind of belief system. I couldn’t always hear the best, but I did hear him ask her if she had ever heard of Amway, Quixtar, Melaleuca and then told her those were MLM’s and went on the explain what that was. He was trying to get her to buy into the “Market America” way of life. I had to go back to work, so I wasn’t able to hear how their meeting ended.

It’s also good to read people talking about their experiences

Personally I get something out of this forum. I was in an MLM once but never got really sucked into it like some. I have seen lots of others get sucked in. I have even attended some of these “opportunity” meetings for other products. Part of what this forum has helped me do is understand the system and context for the MLMs. I can see from the materials presented in the files section and the discussions here the degree to which the MLM is a systematic mind game. It just doesn’t hold up to what is common sense about business or making money. Peopl who are in it are always looking at the horizon for a quick fix and avoiding doing the things that would make them money – like cutting overhead costs, seeking less expensive products to sell, not going to so many seminars but concentrating on selling the products, doing a busines plan, understanding financial statements, depending on the business to generate revenue rather than concentrating on tax benefits and much more.

Why are you here in the first place?

Did our forum reach out thru the Internet and grab you, forcing you in here? Are you the self-appointed web counselor dispensing unsolicited mental health advice? What does it matter to you if this forum or even the other site you visited is active and what the content might be? If you accidentally happend upon us and we offend you, you do realize that your back button works? What is your connection with mlm?

To tell the truth we see your type of post quite often and it is always some pro-mlmer who is telling us we need to get over it and get on with our life, usually followed by such labels as “loser” and “lazy”. In addition if you plan on quoting Abraham Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs then it is best to include all 5 levels so his philosophy is not taken out of context.

A special note to PW, you do a great job as owner and moderator of this forum. Ruth was very wise to leave her legacy in your hands.

I don’t think the purpose of this forum

can be comparred to the forum this girl is running. There is a difference between complaining and offering support. I am very grateful to PW and to the people of this forum. I have never been involved with a MLM, but my 23 year old son is and has been for almost four years. I did not know anybody else that was in a MLM or had ever been in one. Even so, it just sounded like a get rich quick scheme. Since I really didn’t know about Quixtar I decided to get some books on the subject of MLMs. What I read scared the hell out of me. MLMs are much more than a get rich scheme. I really felt a need to talk with others that had experience with MLMs because whenever I talked with family or friends about my concern they just looked at it as a stage my son was going through.
After much searching on the net I found this forum. While I didn’t find a quick way to get my son out of Quixtar (I was hoping I would) I have found people that understand, care, and offer support. It does help to know I’m not alone. PW and others in this forum are providing a service here. I never once thought that those that had been in MLMs hadn’t moved on with their lives. As long as this forum exsists I will read the posts everyday.

I did move on at one point

I dealt with my own involvement in MLM by needing to stay connected to this forum for awhile and unsubscribed when I no longer needed it and also felt I wasn’t adding anything. Then one of my SIL’s got involved with an MLM and I rejoined for support and help in how to deal with her. Then my other SIL got involved in an MLM. My husband now deals daily with a Nikken distributor pushing his wares on him at work. My next door neighbor who swears she can’t stand MLMs was doing PPL and Stampin’ up and is constantly inviting me to parties, etc, etc.

I look at this forum as I do parenting. I don’t know it all and even the areas that I am well versed in, it always helps to recharge and refresh my knowledge so I am better prepared to respond appropriately. As a recovering alcoholic will always need their support, so do many who gave their lives over to MLM and got out.

I appreciate PWs efforts as moderator in keeping this forum healthy. It takes time/effort and often comes with a lot of negativity directed towards you. Oh and the pay stinks It really is not easy to maintain a forum with healthy boundaries, especially one of this size.

I for one can agree completely with PW

My mom was the last family member I had in an mlm. Now her and my dad are out completely. They are enjoying a type of lifestyle now that they never could while they were in amway. Technically my need here is “done” as I no longer have family involved. Understand though that by my way of looking at things I still feel the need to stay connected and hopefully help someone else, even if it just providing comic relief by saying something dumb :).

I believe I owe the people of this forum a debt by helping me when no one else understood my pain and frustration. I intend to do that for a long time to come. It doesn’t dominate my life, but it is important as this forum has helped me heal and enjoy my life better, and has also helped me heal a rift in my relationship with my mother, father and the rest of my family. My parents just spent two weeks here and didn’t mention the “Business” once. We all had a great time for the first time in thirteen years. I am only 35. Almost one third of my life and pretty much all my adult life has been impacted by mlm. As long as this forum is here to help people in need, I will continue to support it in any way I can.

I hope this helps you put some of this in perspective. Sorry about the length of this post.

I’m here for 1 reason and 1 reason only

to help warn people about the abusive mlm industry. If I drive my car down a road that has a sign that states it’s a superhighway and after traveling a short distance I drive off a cliff instead, you can bet I’m going to stand at the entrance to that “superhighway” and try to wave other drivers off. This club along with several other anti sites have successfully kept 6 would be recruits I have sent to them from joining an mlm and by God it’s worth it even if it was just 1. I’m relatively active in this club and I spend about 10-15 minutes each day reading the posts and occaisionally responding but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have many hobbies and activities which have nothing to do with scams or even the Internet. I will gladly move on when the last mlm gets shut down.

Well, I for one

though I do not participate very often, need this forum just to stay connected to those of which I may need their help one day.
Simply because I have a best friend/sister in the AmQuix, and I am always hopeful that one day she will wake up and I will be there with the right things to say when she does..and I will know what the right things are to say are because every day I read everyone’s post here. So, no matter, whatever the reason for people’s continued posting, if even to vent, it is a much needed arena. At least as long as AmQuix and companies like them exist.

Essentially, it depends upon your goals and your role in the forum

I, for one, joined this forum for help with understanding what had happened over the course of my 5+ years of involvement in MLM and what I was likely to expect in the future. This forum helped me and my wife in that regard. The previous owner of this forum had been involved in Amway and various MLM web sites and discussion forums for about 15 years when she decided to move on to other things entirely.
She had been involved in a lot of unseen efforts to expose the abuses of AQMO organizations and their equivalents in other MLM companies. So the breadth of her activities were (and could still be) wider than (for instance) mine. I simply moderate a couple of online forums about MLM. Hardly something that dominates my day.

But I do appreciate the notion of “moving on.” There’s an old adage about getting on the boat to go across the river and how useless being on the boat can get if you never get off on the other side of the river.

But neither you nor I define what “the other side” is for anyone here. It is a personal thing, not something that can be dictated. So for this forum, it’s best, I think, that we are simply here and that people can come and go as they think best.

But if you think *I* should be one who moves on, we can talk about ownership and moderation duties of this forum. I mostly enjoy doing this, but I could let it go if I knew someone would continue it in a responsible way. That’s the main reason Ruth entrusted me with this forum. She knew I wouldn’t ruin it. I intend to honor her trust in me, and I hope to follow the same path with the next owner.

(Until there are no more victims of MLM, this forum will need to exist, and there will need to be someone responsible at is helm.)

Again, it depends on what is being said and who the audience is

If you have a web site up and you post stuff without much conversation or interaction, then the exercise can be seen as self-serving.

A simple numbers comparison is all that is necessary to show you the apples-vs.-oranges nature of your contention:

How many people are impacted by the girl and her ex-boyfriend, their words and actions?

I have gotten Google Alerts from people named “Amway.” You’re right – there’s something wrong with that.

Could be, depending upon what is being said and who the audience is

In this forum, we have a large member list that is growing every day. Granted, lots of the new members are spammers who joined but have not posted (yet), but there are many who join simply to read the messages and not necessarily participate. And if they DO participate, there are people here to interact with them.

So are you suggesting that there should be a forum with no regular participants? No one who develops strategies to help those who may need help? No one to answer the questions that we see here nearly every single day? The clueless helping the clueless is what you’re suggesting? (I was going to use “blind,” but I thought “clueless” was cuter.)

After a point, could it be useful as a distraction?

I saw forum the other day that centered around someone’s exboyfriend of 4 years ago. And it was still active! She stated that the website had a “higher purpose” to protect others from the pain she went through. From reading the comments though, it was mostly about continued revenge against the ex (the actions and claims weren’t as congruent as she would like. The cause might be a great one I don’t know, and there’s nothing necessarily “wrong” with it. Be that as it may, I think it’s fair to say that most people wouldn’t associate her continued focus on the subject and running a forum named after the ex with someone being “over their ex”. When continually talking about a person for years and associating the Maslow human need of “connection with others” (via the forum), the topic is continually being reinforced and the assocation with the feelings keep strong like a muscle that is exercised.

Is the name of the ex in this case “Amway”? And who the hell named their kid that?

I submit that you’ll know you are “over it” when you’re able to move on and using the ex forum time for something completely fresh and new…for example, piano lessons!

If the goal of being involved in such a forum doesn’t include being able to move on and leave the forum, then I wonder if it’s being used as a distraction. I’m talking to myself here too by the way 🙂

And whether you even bothered to read the email

you were sent on joining this forum! Are you playing by OUR rules or are you upset because we don’t play by YOUR rules? This is our ball field. If you don’t like it, then go home!

Bravo. If you’re new, you’re still a guest in our home. Act as one. If you can’t, then you’re letting us know just what kind of people are in your organization.

And overall, VERY WELL said, Paine!


Unlike, for example, QS IBOs (and I’ve said many times how ironic IBO is because they aren’t independent, it’s not a business, and they don’t own squat), who are told to spend all their spare time on recruiting, we have lives. We spend time with our children. We go out and do things without having to watch for prospects. We pay the bills on time and can do it on a job that we can leave behind us at the end of the day.

It makes me wonder

People come in to this forum and are sent, on joining, an email that explains that. Yet they don’t read it and come in anyway, trying to pull us in with questions like, “Have you tried this? It sounds different,” or direct comments like that we are bitter and have no lives.

But they don’t even read the “Please read before posting” guidelines. It makes you wonder if the MLM people that come in here to recruit or argue can think independently at all or if they’re all brainwashed to the point where they think everyone should be in their way of life.